Aller au contenu

Messages recommandés

  • Réponses 173
  • Created
  • Dernière réponse

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Le présentateur est tellement malaisant, il est pas dans le délire, tout le monde osef de lui, mais il essaie quand même de s'incruster. On dirait Kobe en soirée.

Ah non ça je suis pas d'accord. La médiocrité abyssale actuelle ne doit pas nous faire oublier le néant des dernières années Fergie. Sérieux notre malaise avait déjà débuté sous Fergie, depuis plus ou moins le départ de Ronaldo. Et encore certains matchs avec Ronaldo étaient gagnés au mental, pas forcément grâce au jeu. Mais tout de même avec Ronaldo, Scholes, Rooney de l'époque, Tevez, Ferdinand et j'en passe, on a quand même joué au football

United est médiocre dans le jeu depuis peut être 5 ou 6 ans. Depuis 2009 je dirais.

  • Like 1
Lien à poster
Partager sur d’autres sites

Comparé à ce que j'ai vu sous moyes et van gaal JAMAIS on a été aussi médiocre sous ferguson. Non l'année 2010 on joue encore remember l'année de dingue de roo en 9 et demi et la paire carrick giggs qui a marché sur l'europe avant que le barca nous fist. Que dire des 3 premiers mois avec jones smalling et le 8-2 infligé aux gunneuse ou le 5-1 aux spurs et j'en passe... Alors oui le dernier titre manquait de saveur et ça jouait pas comme des ouf, mais on était solide, cohérent et très efficace...

  • Like 8
Lien à poster
Partager sur d’autres sites
il y a une heure, rooney_57 a dit :

Comparé à ce que j'ai vu sous moyes et van gaal JAMAIS on a été aussi médiocre sous ferguson. Non l'année 2010 on joue encore remember l'année de dingue de roo en 9 et demi et la paire carrick giggs qui a marché sur l'europe avant que le barca nous fist. Que dire des 3 premiers mois avec jones smalling et le 8-2 infligé aux gunneuse ou le 5-1 aux spurs et j'en passe... Alors oui le dernier titre manquait de saveur et ça jouait pas comme des ouf, mais on était solide, cohérent et très efficace...

En 2010 oui on était encore très très fort on jouait plutôt bien je suis d'accord avec toi. En 2011 le niveau avait baissé et on avait fait une première partie de saison dégueulasse avant les réveils de Rooney, Giggs et Carrick et l'explosion de Chicharito qui nous avait permis de finir très fort et avec un football sympa. Direct et pas très équilibré d'ailleurs. Pas contre depuis non on était pas très cohérent et c'était réellement pauvre au niveau du jeu. On a du faire revenir Scholes souviens toi. Même si oui c'était tout de même mieux qu'avec Moyes et VG.

  • Like 6
Lien à poster
Partager sur d’autres sites
à l’instant, toudoudou a dit :

En 2010 oui on était encore très très fort on jouait plutôt bien je suis d'accord avec toi. En 2011 le niveau avait baissé et on avait fait une première partie de saison dégueulasse avant les réveils de Rooney, Giggs et Carrick et l'explosion de Chicharito qui nous avait permis de finir très fort et avec un football sympa. Direct et pas très équilibré d'ailleurs. Pas contre depuis non on était pas très cohérent et c'était réellement pauvre au niveau du jeu. On a du faire revenir Scholes souviens toi. Même si oui c'était tout de même mieux qu'avec Moyes et VG.

"dégueulasse" c'est à relativiser quand même. 

On a bien commencé en 2010/2011 avec des belles victoires à domicile, un très bon Scholes, Berbatov et Nani. Avec les diverses blessures l'équipe est devenue bien plus mauvaise ouais, je pense notamment au match face aux Wolves à Old Trafford où on gagne grâce à Park en fin de match en ayant produit une rencontre immonde. 

Mais y'a eu de bonnes rencontres en première partie de saison quand même, c'est totalement incomparable aux années post-Ferguson : West Ham (3-0), Newcastle (3-0), Liverpool (3-2), Blackburn (7-1), Everton (3-3, ok pas un bon souvenir au vu de la fin de match ...), même le match contre Arsenal est de bon niveau. 

  • Like 1
Lien à poster
Partager sur d’autres sites
il y a 10 minutes, Red Eye a dit :

"dégueulasse" c'est à relativiser quand même. 

On a bien commencé en 2010/2011 avec des belles victoires à domicile, un très bon Scholes, Berbatov et Nani. Avec les diverses blessures l'équipe est devenue bien plus mauvaise ouais, je pense notamment au match face aux Wolves à Old Trafford où on gagne grâce à Park en fin de match en ayant produit une rencontre immonde. 

Mais y'a eu de bonnes rencontres en première partie de saison quand même, c'est totalement incomparable aux années post-Ferguson : West Ham (3-0), Newcastle (3-0), Liverpool (3-2), Blackburn (7-1), Everton (3-3, ok pas un bon souvenir au vu de la fin de match ...), même le match contre Arsenal est de bon niveau. 

Non je me souviens qu'on se faisait vraiment chier, raf des scores. Nani et Berbatov nous ramenaient beaucoup de point mais c'était le néant.

Lien à poster
Partager sur d’autres sites
à l’instant, toudoudou a dit :

Non je me souviens qu'on se faisait vraiment chier, raf des scores. Nani et Berbatov nous ramenaient beaucoup de point mais c'était le néant.

J'évoquais les scores juste pour savoir de quel match on parlait.

Moi les matchs que j'ai cité, ils n'ont absolument, mais absolument rien à voir avec les purges que l'on s'est tapé sous LvG & Moyes. 

Les premiers matchs de la saison étaient même plutôt réussis à Old Trafford, on bougeait pas mal devant. Rien que par Berbatov, on voyait en un match plus de combinaisons et de jeu à une touche de balle aux abords de la surface que depuis le début de cette saison. Le niveau de nos joueurs comptait bien sûr aussi pas mal. 

C'était surtout avant la fameuse demande de Rooney en fait. Entre celle-ci (soit peu avant le match face au Bursaspor où Nani claque un beau but et où on se fait pas mal chier le reste du temps) et la deuxième partie de saison globalement, y'a un sentiment d'ennui qui revenait pas mal (Wolves, Spurs, Sunderland, Stoke sont les premiers noms qui me viennent à l'esprit) mais vraiment, hormis peut-être vraiment les Wolves (en même temps on avait Bébé sur la pelouse, un milieu Fletcher-O'Shea à cause de la blessure d'Hargreaves au bout de cinq minutes ... :ph34r:) y'a vraiment rien de comparable avec ce qu'on vit actuellement. 

Depuis les années 2000, je ne sais même pas si c'est possible de voir un Manchester aussi chiant dans le jeu. 

  • Like 1
Lien à poster
Partager sur d’autres sites
  • 2 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Listening to Sir Alex Ferguson, the only player that he seems to have a measure of regret about is David Beckham. While he obviously is enamored with Ronaldo, he acknowledges no regret with his sale. He obviously cares less about his relationship with Roy Keane, and while he was happy with the state of his Ruud van Nistelrooy relationship fixing itself, the one player that Ferguson has asked the most ‘What if?’ about is the “young lad from London.”

Ferguson

“There was no animosity between us, just disappointment, for me. Dejection. I would look at him and think: ‘What are you doing, son?”

Beckham

I wasn’t going to convince him that being fulfilled as a person could only ever be good for me as a player. And, obviously, nothing he said was going to change how much I loved and cherished my family.

Ferguson for his part admits he could never really see why Beckham would surrender himself over to the commercial aspect of the game when he had the potential to be one of the best players in the world.

Ferguson

“From one perspective it would be churlish of me to say he made the wrong decision, in the sense that he’s a very wealthy man. He’s become an icon. People react to his style changes. They copy them. But I’m a football man, and I don’t think you give up football for anything. ”

“A shame, because he could still have been at Manchester United when I left. He would have been one of the greatest Man United legends. The only thing making him a legend at LA Galaxy and beyond was his iconic status. At some point in his life, he may feel the urge to say: I made a mistake.”

By the time Beckham left Manchester United in his famous transfer to Real Madrid the strained relationship between the England captain and the manager was splashed throughout every tabloid in the world. Everyone knows about the boot, but both acknowledge that was a culmination and not what started the problem.

So what led to their infamous fallout?

Part One: Nicolas Cage Save the Queen

As with everything related to Sir Alex Ferguson’s career, he’s an unreliable narrator. He and Beckham both have similar, yet differing, perspectives of their fallout.

Ferguson points to the 2002 World Cup as where the embers of their fight started.

Ferguson

“A year prior to leaving us, of course, David had taken part in the 2002 World Cup in Japan and South Korea, weeks after breaking his metatarsal in the Champions League tie at Old Trafford in the spring of 2002.”

“From the evidence of the tournament, David couldn’t have been all right…I was surprised at how physically off the pace he seemed, because he was such a fit boy. So he couldn’t have been fit, either physically or mentally. ”

It was here that Ferguson says he began to see David’s celebrity overtaking his talent.

Ferguson

“He gave me 12 to 15 goals a season, worked his balls off. That was taken away from him. And with that being taken away from him, he lost the chance to become an absolute top-dog player. For my money, after the change, he never attained the level where you would say: that is an absolute top player.”

Ferguson puts some of the blame on the England medical team for not getting Beckham healthy after breaking his foot.

Ferguson

When you have a player of Beckham’s profile (and I had another later, in Rooney), there is a convergence of medical staff always wanting to interfere. England’s medical staff would want to come to the training ground. Often I felt that this was an insult to us. I wondered whether my Scottishness was a factor, a reason not to trust me.”

Beckham sees this differently.

Beckham

I know the United medical staff weren’t all that happy about me going off to Dubai with the rest of the England squad to start our preparations for the World Cup. I think the manager assumed the week would just be a lark and that I’d stand a better chance of being fit if I stayed in Manchester and worked with the trainers at Carrington. I knew that, even when I went off to play for my country, I was still a United player. If the club had really put their foot down I’d have done what they said without thinking twice.

The FA wanted their captain with the team through all preparations and even offered to have United’s medical team be the ones to continue treating Beckham.

Beckham

Did that week in Dubai help finish me off as a United player in the eyes of the boss?

Ferguson

“From the evidence of the tournament, David couldn’t have been all right. ”

Beckham

I still had doubts whether I would be ready to play in our first match against Sweden.

With the season arrived, Ferguson says that he received back a different player.

Ferguson

“In his final season with us, we were aware that David’s work-rate was dropping…The main issue was that his application level had dropped from its traditionally stratospheric level.”

Both the player and the manager acknowledge that the beginning of the season was difficult for the player, and that when Beckham had to take the sideline for a broken rib it was a blessing in disguise to get fully healthy.

This is where Beckham states the fallout truly began.

Beckham

I joined up with England for a get-together during the international week. The whole squad was invited to Buckingham Palace, which was something I couldn’t miss out on. I felt unbelievably proud, being introduced to Her Majesty the Queen again as the England captain.

What should have been one of the proudest moments of Beckham’s life soon became the harbinger for the end of his time at United.

Beckham

Almost as soon as I started work on building up my fitness at Carrington, I began to feel a chill in the atmosphere: not around the club, but between me and Alex Ferguson.

After a while, Beckham confronted the manager, asking him if there was a problem between the two.

Beckham

He did. A big problem. To be specific, it was that, instead of going straight off on vacation, I’d gone to Buckingham Palace with the rest of the England players. What the manager said next, I’ll never forget: ‘When I saw you turn up there, I questioned your loyalty to Manchester United.’

Ferguson

“People accused me, because I’m Scottish, of not wanting England to do well. ”

From here Beckham states that nothing he did was right in the eyes of the manager. Rows just kept occurring and Beckham feels that there wasn’t a proper go-between the two to mediate any issues.

Beckham

The new number two, Carlos Queiroz, was a great coach, no question, but maybe because of a language barrier or because of his own background as a top-flight manager himself, he wasn’t someone I’d have felt comfortable having that kind of conversation with.

Amusingly enough, Beckham’s mom finally decided to speak with the manager as she recognized her son falling into a depression over his issues at the club.

Beckham

At 27, it seemed to me that I should be able to sort out my own problems at work. It was a real surprise to me that she’d done what she had. I’d guess it was for the boss, too. She told me a bit about what had been said and one thing stuck in my mind: ‘Do you know Sandra, the trouble with David is that everybody sucks up to him now.’

Ferguson

“David thought he was bigger than Alex Ferguson. There is no doubt about that in my mind. ”

A few days after this Beckham says that he and Ferguson had a conversation where they attempted to hash out their problems and reach common ground. They both admitted to being in the wrong and to work through their differences for the good of the club.

It wasn’t to last.

Part Two: the luckiest kick in the world

What happened next has long since passed into football infamy, but shows the disparity between the two’s perspective and just how wide the gulf had become of the two.

Ferguson “The confrontation between us that caused so much excitement around the game was an FA Cup fifth-round tie against Arsenal at Old Trafford in February 2003, which we lost 2–0.”

Beckham

At half-time, the manager said he wasn’t happy with how I was playing. That it wasn’t my job to be a right-back. I should be pushing up, further forward, he said. I couldn’t understand what he meant. I looked across at Gary who, of course, was playing behind me, and I could see he didn’t agree with him either. There wasn’t any point in me saying anything.

Ferguson

“David’s offence in that particular game was that he neglected to track back for the second Arsenal goal, scored by Sylvain Wiltord. He merely jogged. ”

Beckham

It got worse, though. Early in the second half, Edu played a through ball for Wiltord and Arsenal were two up. I didn’t play well. Nobody else did, either.

Ferguson

“As usual, with David at that time, he was dismissive of my criticism. It’s possible that he was starting to think he no longer needed to track back and chase, which were the very qualities that had made him what he was.”

Beckham

The boss kept going: ‘We told you about it before the game. The problem with you is you don’t let anyone talk to you. You don’t listen.’ I couldn’t believe it. I’d been listening – and wanting to listen – my whole career. I’d listened to the boss since the first day we’d met and I was listening now. ‘David. When you’re wrong, you’ve got to own up.’ ‘Boss, I’m sorry. I’m not wrong here. This wasn’t my fault and I’m not taking the blame for it.’ ‘No. Take the blame is what you’re going to do.’

What happened next took both completely by surprise.

Beckham

I felt like I was being bullied, in public, and being backed into a corner, for no reason other than spite. I was trapped. And I swore at him. Something no player, certainly no United player, should ever do to the manager. What happened then still doesn’t seem real now, thinking back to that afternoon.

Ferguson

“He was around 12 feet from me. Between us on the floor lay a row of boots. David swore. I moved towards him, and as I approached I kicked a boot. It hit him right above the eye.”

Beckham

There was a boot on the floor. He swung his leg and kicked it. At me? At the wall? It could have been anywhere, he was that angry now. I felt a sting just over my left eye, where the boot had hit me. I put one hand up to it and found myself wiping blood off my eyebrow. I went for the manager. I don’t know if I’ve ever lost control like that in my life before. A couple of the lads stood up. I was grabbed by Giggsy first, then by Gary and Ruud van Nistelrooy.

The fallout is highlighted different between the two.

Ferguson

“The next day the story was in the press. In public an Alice band highlighted the damage inflicted by the boot.”

Beckham

I walked out of the house in Alderley Edge the following morning, with my hair pulled back to stop it falling against the cut over my eye and, within a couple of minutes, someone had taken the photo that was all over Monday’s papers.

Ferguson

“I called him in the next day to go through the video and he still would not accept his mistake. ”

Beckham

We watched the video of the Arsenal defeat. The boss pointed out where he thought I’d been caught out of position for the second goal but he also admitted that half the team had actually been in the wrong place at the same time. It was as close as I was going to get to an admission that singling me out for criticism in the dressing room that afternoon hadn’t been fair.

Ferguson

“ As he sat listening to me, he didn’t say a word. Not a word. ‘Do you understand what we’re talking about, why we got on to you?’ I asked. He didn’t even answer me.”

Ferguson says that it was after this meeting that he made up his mind that Beckham had to leave.

Ferguson

“The minute a Manchester United player thought he was bigger than the manager, he had to go. I used to say, ‘The moment the manager loses his authority, you don’t have a club. The players will be running it, and then you’re in trouble.”

Part Three: The Royal goodbye

Beckham went away after this confrontation thinking that after the next international break perhaps the problems would be put behind them. After all, United were drawn in the Champions League with Real Madrid - one of the biggest games of the year no matter when and where it would take.

It was not to be.

Beckham

I seem to remember that it was right around the time the draw was made – two weeks before the first leg – that stories started appearing in the papers about me being transferred to Real.

Ferguson was hot about these rumors, and Beckham agreed - perhaps putting them down to mischief making from the Madrid camp.

The first game in the Champions League tie away to Madrid did no favors to the fractured relationship between the player and manager.

Beckham

When the game ended, I was looking down at the field, catching my breath and putting a hand to the back of my leg, which was starting to tighten up. Out of the corner of my eye, I saw Roberto Carlos coming towards me. He was smiling. I straightened up and looked at him. Now, he was laughing. I didn’t have a clue what about. There was something a little crazy about the moment. I didn’t know what to say or do. I smiled back as we shook hands. I could hear the camera shutters clicking and I remember thinking: That won’t make a very good picture back in Manchester.

Ferguson

“In Spain, for the first leg, David seemed especially keen to shake hands with Roberto Carlos, the Madrid left-back.”

The hamstring problem that Beckham said he picked up in the game hammered another nail into the coffin Ferguson was building. Despite spending a lot of time on the treatment table it was obvious that Ferguson was seeing excuses.

Ferguson

“The following Saturday, after our 3–1 defeat at the Bernabéu, he withdrew from the game against Newcastle, saying he wasn’t fit. I played Solskjaer, who was magnificent in a 6–2 win, and he stayed in the side.”

Beckham

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer came in and did really well in place of me.

Ferguson

“David’s form, quite simply, wasn’t good enough for me to pull Solskjaer out of a winning team for the Old Trafford leg against Real. During a round of head tennis before the return game, I pulled David aside and told him, ‘Look, I’m going to start with Ole.’”

Beckham

It suddenly felt as if the whole of the season had been about him building up to doing this to me. I was on the outside looking in. Real Madrid: an important game, son. Too important for you to play in.

It was in this moment that the relationship irrevocably fractured.

Beckham

I shook my head, turned round, and began walking back to the dressing room. ‘David. Come back here. Don’t walk away from me.’ The boss didn’t shout. He didn’t lose his temper. It was as if he was asking me, not telling me, David, please come back. I want to finish what I was saying.

Ferguson

“He huffed and walked away.”

Beckham

Thinking back to that scene now, I’d say that if the manager had still cared about me as a person or as a player, we’d have had an argument there and then. He wouldn’t have let me walk away from him like that.

Ferguson

“There was a terrific hullaboo that night, with David coming on as sub for Verón in the 63rd minute”

Beckham

What I couldn’t believe – and what made me sure that the manager was leaving me out for personal rather than soccer reasons – was seeing Juan Sebastien Veron’s name on the teamsheet.

The game itself featured one of United’s comebacks of the ages - even though it wasn’t enough for United to win the tie. Beckham just barely missed scoring a hat trick in the 30 minutes he was subbed on.

Beckham

As we shook hands with the Real players, there was a moment or two of: if only. And then, elation washed over me. I felt more fulfilled by the 30 minutes of soccer I’d just played than I had by any game all season. The crowd, when I’d come on as a sub, had seemed a little subdued. The reception I got after the final whistle was better than any I could remember at Old Trafford. I’m always the last player off the field anyway and after the Real game I wanted to hang around and soak it up.

Ferguson

“David was looking for the sympathy vote from the fans. But there is no doubt there had been a direct attack on me. ”

Beckham

I certainly wasn’t saying goodbye to Old Trafford that night. The opposite: I thought I’d done all I could to put doubts about my commitment and worth to the club behind me. During the ninety minutes, it had been all about the team.

Beckham went home that night thinking that finally, 100%, all the issues had been put to bed. Then he saw the video that night of Fergie’s reaction to his missed free-kick.

Beckham

I was annoyed with myself, watching it. But then the camera cut away to the manager’s reaction and my blood ran cold. He was craning his neck, watching. He turned away as the ball went over the bar. Then, when he looked back, his face just told me everything I needed to know. His rage, his frustration: and it was all Beckham’s fault…

Maybe you needed to have lived through the past six months to really understand what was obvious to me: ‘It’s over. He wants me out.’

United won the league in no small part due to goals from Beckham. In the final game of the season at Everton Beckham scored a trademark free kick goal.

Ferguson

“David had played his part in our victorious League campaign, so there was no reason to leave him out at Goodison Park.”

Beckham

If you’d asked me that afternoon if I was leaving United, I’d have told you: ‘Not in a million years.’ I won’t ever forget the feeling: winning in a United shirt. The million years, though? I was gone in less than five weeks.

Ferguson

“On Wednesday 18 June 2003 we told the Stock Exchange he would be joining Real Madrid for a fee of £24.5 million. David was 28.”

Beckham

Victoria and I were already at the airport, making our way from the lounge to the departure gate, when Tony called: ‘Everything’s fine. I bet there are cameras pointed at you right now, aren’t there?’ There were, as we hurried along the corridor. ‘Well, just be sure you and Victoria realize they’re taking pictures – the first pictures – of you both walking into a new adventure, a new world, together. It’s all agreed. Enjoy yourselves.’ I whispered to Victoria: ‘It’s done.’

Ferguson

“I hold no rancour towards David at all. I like him. I think he’s a wonderful boy. But you should never surrender what you’re good at.”

 

Excellent !

  • Like 1
Lien à poster
Partager sur d’autres sites

Ils s'en balec tellement du présentateur mdr, le pauvre. SAF a meme pas du se rendre compte de sa présence. Et ce rire forcé pour tapper l'incrust, aie aie

Lien à poster
Partager sur d’autres sites
  • En ligne récemment   0 membre est en ligne

    Aucun utilisateur enregistré regarde cette page.

  • Évènements à venir

    • 01 novembre 2020 16:30 Jusqu’au 18:30
      Manchester United vs Arsenal - English Premier League.

      Please note, all dates are subject to change. For information on tickets and hospitality packages, please visit www.manutd.com/tickets.
    • 04 novembre 2020 17:55 Jusqu’au 19:55
      Istanbul Basaksehir vs Manchester United - Champions League.

      Please note, all dates are subject to change. For information on tickets and hospitality packages, please visit www.manutd.com/tickets.

×
×
  • Créer...